This is an automated transcription of the show from December 1st. No Pulitzer prizes here. Nasty transcription. You're way better off listening to the show here.
That's Shane Pinto with his ninth goal of the season on Wednesday night. Rangers lead to two one. Ah, but that was all she wrote A three one loss to the Rangers. so that, uh, dramatic two game win streak comes to a close. game two of a home and home series with the Rangers at the Big Apple on Friday night.
But, we'll talk about that game. Coming up today here on the Jim keay Ford Sens Nation Podcast. We'll also discuss some of the defensive zone coverage we saw in that Ranger game. Alex Formenton is not going to be playing hockey in the National Hockey League this year. His deadline has come and gone as of. Well, as of today, as we're recording this here on Thursday, December, the first, and a whole lot more coming up today here on the show at Steve Warne, along with coach Greg Kennedy, and welcome to December, Greg.
Oh, yes. I'm loving this weather. Aren't you loving this, Steve? It's not snowing. It's just gorgeous. It was a little cold today, but if winter holds off like this, I, I'm actually starting to believe in global warming.
Yeah, yeah. Well, it's, uh, it's certainly nice and green. I'll say that. And I'll tell you. Yeah, I've got here my, I've got here my son's chocolate advent calendar that should be starting today. And, uh, look at that. Yeah. Isn't that nice? But, uh, look at that. They're all empty, uh, because it's sitting right, right here beside my desk and has been for the last four days and I've been slowly whittling away at it.
So I've gotta get him a replacement chocolate Advent calendar. Uh, here after the show. You were eating it. Me? Yes,exactly. Oh, I thought Michael got a hold of it early. .
No, it was me. I admit it. I admit it. But I promised to get him a new one, uh, here before the end of the day here on December 1st. But we should launch today.
One of the nice things about December being upon. I gotta say, and, and don't get me wrong, it is a wonderful cause, but I think I've had about enough of watching all the cheesy mustaches for mo November on the Ottawa Senators roster. How about you? I agree completely. ,
you know, I, I, I, uh, I spent, uh, five seasons coaching in the, uh, what is now the Myers aaa.
It used to be the Ottawa Senators AAA Myers Hockey there. And every year they would, they, they would hire a cameraman who would come out and do games and practices for, for the team, take pictures. But he always did it. So every year I get these pictures of me on the bench or on the ice of practice, and I'd have this stupid mustache.
Yeah. And like, they're just ruined. They're just terrible pictures. I don't, I look okay with the goatee, I think, but, uh, not with a mustache. And I agree with you. It's some of the guys who grow them like, good on you. But like, don't, you know, just give it up. Somebody looks like somebody looks like Crosby.
Who is it that I keep seeing? And every time I see him, oh, Logan c. Okay. Think he looks like Sid when Sid tries to grow
mustache. Yeah. There's a few in the sends locker room where, yeah, it's, uh, good try. Good try. Uh, I gotta say Jake Sanderson has been, uh, a real revelation for this team. He has been absolutely crucial, and we want to talk about that.
It's an interesting tweet that, uh, Jason York, our good pal, uh, former senator, uh, had earlier today about Jake Sanderson and what they might have done without. But, uh, I'd say he has a mustache. He's the mustache champion. I'll put it that way. I think he wins. Really? Yeah. At the age of 20 he put on. Yeah.
It's the best one I saw. Did you see a better one?
Um, Nick Holden was pretty good.
Yeah. He dyed his. you know who was on it? What's that? The best ever was Dylan Dello. Oh yeah. That guy grew a stash. Absolutely. Yeah. He uh, he was pretty much your winner by November 3rd. . .
He was an Italian.
He's got Italian in him, I suppose so.
Right. Uh, anyway. Great cause, and, uh, glad they raised some money and so that was cool. Um, but let's get to the game from yesterday. And, uh, before we sink our teeth into what we thought of the three one loss to the Rangers, let's find out what DJ. Who is back on the hot seat again after a modest two game winning streak.
Let's find out what DJ Smith thought about what was missing from his roster in the three one loss, uh, execution. You know, I think offensively, um, we had chances to shoot where we didn't shoot. Maybe too cute. Um, you know, and, and in a, you know, two, one game and you're passing up, you know, some grade A looks, you know, and then it's three, one, you're squeezing it.
But, um, You know, I just didn't think we got to the net enough. You, you mentioned two ones, you felt like you passed up some chances. You guys had a power play there at two one. What did you see out of that group, uh, in that, in that two minutes? Cause it just kind of felt like they didn't quite seize the moment.
Yeah, that's fair. I mean, the power plant went well. I mean that's, uh, you know, the penalty kill did a good job over. You know, we had a couple good looks and whether they blocked them or we didn't shoot, um, we didn't make the goalie save it. And I think, you know, in those opportunities, you gotta make the goalie save the buck.
How did you feel the energy of the group was tonight? You know what? I, I, I thought we battled hard. I didn't think so. There was a lot of room out there. Give the Rangers credit for how hard they played away from the puck, the way they tracked or they had lost three in a row. Um, you know, I thought we had a really good first period.
Um, you know, I think it could go either way. We just, you know, they got to the net on us and tipped, uh, you know, I think they tipped all three in and, uh, you know, we gotta knock people down. Was there first the shot that was on the line, did you think it was gonna get reviewed or not? Well, they called right from the back.
Um, but you know, the difference is they, they tipped three in and, and we didn't, there's DJ Smith after the game, and I think he summed up most of the thoughts I would have. Mm-hmm. , you know, they didn't get enough action at the opponent's net and they didn't do a very good job picking up guys in front of their own net, which is what leads inevitably to these tips and deflections that, uh, end up being the difference in the hockey game.
It's, uh, it's just an ongoing issue of. Just, you know, being allowed to just linger around the sends net, and that always leads to.
Yeah, I mean, to me the biggest point that DJ made was we didn't knock enough people down or we didn't knock people down. He's absolutely right. Uh, the net front presence of the senators in front of their own net is nowhere near strong enough, has never been strong enough, or hasn't been for the last few years anyway.
Um, sticks, score goals, this just in, uh, you need to tie up sticks in front of your net and even when there are guys there, Standing there and cross checking somebody in the back isn't tying up a stick stick score. Goals, you need to tie up sticks. You need to be on people and close enough to people that you can lift a stick or press down on a stick or do something to control those things from happening.
And it was one, well, a couple of 'em were, they're there, but they're not really picking the guy up or tying up a stick. And the other one was, nobody was there. Right. Then, I think of the third goal where Kare was all alone.
There was so much room for the shot coming in from the point, and Kreider was all alone.
And, uh, if you've seen the video of it, you see there's just a miscommunication. It looks like both Zoom. And the center down low, because Shabbat is starting, is kind of halfheartedly chasing, uh, his guy up toward the point. Uh, Stutzle is down low, taking his spot, and Zoo is there as well. And both of them fade away exactly at the same time from Crier and, and Crier left wide open.
What it did, I mean, I didn't like that. Obviously there was, but it happens. Miscommunications, it just happens to this team way too much. What I really hated. I saw a 20 year old kid in Stutzle turning around and full on blaming Zub. I mean, I have a big problem with that. That's, that's something that can really erode chemistry when guys are so openly blaming teammates on the ice.
Like that Stutzle gets a little too emotional from my liking. Mm-hmm. , uh, in the midst of games, what did you think?
I thought exactly what you just said, that, uh, we talk about body language. You always wanna talk about body language as hockey players, the shrug of the shoulders, the slamming of the stick, the rolling of the head, and you, you had all of it there,
He threw his arms up in the air, he rolled his head, uh, across his shoulders and he turned around and looked right at Zo. And, and it's one thing to think that somebody else screwed up. It's one thing to think, Hey, I'm innocent here. It's your fault, but it's another thing to let all 18,000 people in the building and whoever's watching it on TV know that you think that.
Yeah. And that's where you get in trouble, right? Zoo may feel guilty. Maybe it's his fault, maybe whatever. It doesn't matter in the big picture, cuz in the big picture you see an erosion of camaraderie and that's, that's not good.
You gotta be a. I mean, you're 20 and you cut the guy some slack for sure, but it's something to be nipped in the bud right now.
He does so many wonderful things out there, and I'm excited to watch him for the next eight years, don't get me wrong, but in the learning process, in the development as a pro, you can't be going with that little, I'm seven years old having a tantrum facial expression, which comes out like half a dozen times every single.
And you certainly can't be going at your teammates like that and, and flat out blaming them for something that needs to be addressed either by the coach or by. The guy's sort of pseudo mentoring, that being Brady Tkachuk. But that's
it. It's one more thing though, Steve that is controllable. Uh, from the player's perspective and from the coach's perspective, it's a teachable moment.
Mm-hmm. , and there's been too many of them that have obviously gone by again without somebody teaching him, like put together a video pack of all of his bad body language. And bad facial expressions and sit down with 'em in the video room and say, look, this cannot continue. This can't happen. And if it means bringing in the team's, there's, there's a sports psychologist, uh, working with the team, something like that needs to happen.
The coach needs to step in, the video needs to happen. A discussion has to happen, and some help needs to be given here and some, some other outlet needs to be found for, for Tim Stuttle to express his frustration,
it feels to me, They're in an adjustment period right now, uh, where it's, it's affecting the offense too.
Like they didn't really get much going on around the ranger net at all. There weren't many moments where I said, wow, this is a wild sustained pressure. The Rangers did a really good job. You give them credit. But I wonder, Greg, are they in a stage all these young players that have all this. and they're just getting hammered over the head daily by the coaching staff, by the media, by social media, that they gotta be better defensively, and that's maybe taking a bit of the wind out of their offensive sales.
I don't know. That's an interesting question. I, I, I just like, I, you look at it, you say, okay, they've got so much firepower and when they were winning and when they were playing, well, they were scoring goals in bunches. Like remember their third period scoring was through the roof there during that home stand.
Mm-hmm. and, and no leads seemed to be safe. They were coming back with two and three goals and third periods and stuff. And now it's just, it's, it's like they struggle to score and that, I mean, it just makes it all the more worse, all the more hard to deal with. If you can't stop 'em and you can't score either, you're really in trouble.
And I thought, uh, simmer had the expression that he uses and I agree with it or used it myself a few times. It was a leg day for Halak. Like nothing up top, nothing up high. Didn't really have to move his upper body all night long. Everything was just a pad. Save here and a pad. Save there and kick that one out.
Kick this one out. It was a pretty easy day. They didn't make it difficult for Halak. They didn't really make it difficult for the Ranger defense. They, it was, it was all Swedish. No finish. Uh, I, I just, like DJ said, they're passed up opportunities. I don't know whether that's because they're, they feel snake bitten.
They don't know what to do on offense. I don't get it because they've got the offensive firepower, they have the skill level, they've got finishers and it's just, there are nights when it's like they look like they couldn't score to save their lives.
All right. Let's get onto the story that the media is generally trying to avoid. Not everybody, but it feels like everybody is just, I don't know, afraid to talk about it. Maybe worried about ruffling feathers with the team and worried about accreditation, maybe worried. You know, doing something legally inappropriate and things they say, and I'm talking about the Alex Forton story, and I'll say this tongue in cheek, Forton has decided not to play in the NHL this season.
The sins just could not come up with an offer that was to his liking. And so he's decided he's not gonna play in the NHL, that he's really sticking to his guns here. What a tough negotiation. Yes, I'm being quite sarcastic. I honestly don't believe there were ever, ever any serious negotiations of any kind that went down between Forin and the sends.
I think the senders didn't want to touch this story with a 10 foot pool, but the story today is here on Thursday, December 1st as the rules go. Forin was not signed as an RFA by an NHL club by five o'clock today, and thus, he is ineligible to play in the league this season and quite clearly. I think the, uh, senators just, they don't wanna make any moves with this guy.
They don't wanna do anything with him until they see what happens with the NHL investigation as to what happened in the 2018 Hockey Canada incident. And, uh, once they get clarity on that, then they'll make some kind of decision. But I found it almost laughable. The way this was being discussed in the media, the way the senators were portraying it.
Yeah. It's just, you know, we'll see if we can get 'em done. Uh, we can get this contract done before training camp starts, and there's nothing to report other than that. Okay. Please just, just be level with us. Tell us what's really going on. Well,
you know what would've made it really interesting is that of all the players on the team who were on that.
Uh, you take the total number, you subtract all those players who have made a statement that said, I wasn't there, or I had nothing to do with it, or I've done nothing illegal or whatever. You're left with X number and that number seems to mirror the exact number of players that we are told were involved, correct?
Mm-hmm. . Um, then imagine if out of those maybe two or three of them were free agents. Not just Forton, right, right. Then I'd really be interested in seeing what would happen if, if there were more guys who were free agents and none of them got signed, that's really setting a message. But because it's only one, because this is a team that's made some acquisitions, acquired this guy, picked up that guy, signed this guy.
The value that for. Uh, the amount of money that the senators would be willing to pay him is less than probably what he thinks he's worth. So you can still fall back on the argument of, you know, we just couldn't, couldn't, couldn't get a contract or, you know, the senators were offering too little money or too little term.
But if there were more guys and none of them signed, then you could definitely say, yeah, this ties into that situation fully. And even with what we know. I agree with you. This is clearly a case of the senators not wanting to do anything here. They just wanna wait and see what happens and that's what they're doing.
I, I believe that fully,
I think they have confidence in the information they have on the situation. Yeah. Well said. They have confidence in who they suspect and, and who they don't. And uh, and that's obviously driving their decision making here or, you know, lack of doing anything on this story until they know more.
I hear, I hear a lot of people. Well, you don't want another Mitchell Miller situation like the Boston Bruins had and have that blow up in your, it's totally different to me because the Bruins should have known everything about the Miller case and the Bruins still blew that one. In this case, I feel like it's fun until you know what's going on For sure.
I, I feel like you could have gone forward and said, here's a one year contract, but if this thing goes sideways, Uh, you're not playing for the Ottawa Senators anymore. If you communicate well and you're transparent and you're not trying to spin things, I think that fans would have been okay with that in the big picture.
Maybe I'm wrong. I have no idea, but I, I just feel like that in my heart of hearts, that if you're open and transparent from day one and, uh, react accordingly and do the right thing if you need to, then I think most people are okay. I don't know. I
I think it would be the other way. , I think the negative reaction to signing him, regardless of how you tried to, uh, present it to people, I think the negative reaction would've been overwhelming.
I think there would've been a lot of it. Uh, um, I just, I can't help thinking that, Steve, I, I, I see your point, and I, I would agree with you that we're gonna do this and this is why. And this is what we think, and this is the information we have, and this player is this and means this. So we're gonna sign him for that.
I get that, but I still think the negative reaction will be really, really strong. And I, I, I kind of agree with what they've done here. Again, assuming that, that I, I'm correct in what I think they've done here. I truly believe that they just don't want to touch it and they're nervous and therefore they kinda let things slide and didn't really pursue it.
Hard to resign. Uh, Alex Forton and I, and I agree with that, that that.
That decision. Yeah, no, that's fair. And, everybody's going to handle it in their own way. I always try to formulate decisions based on innocence until proven guilty. And I certainly would take that one step farther and say innocent until well accused of something publicly.
And uh, what we do know is that London Police investigated the case and didn't pursue it. We know Hockey Canada investigated it. And didn't pursue it. And that's, that's the, that's the rock hard information that I have right now. Yep. I, I see
your point. I think we, uh, we, we agree to disagree. does not agree.
Yeah. You know, normally we agree with each other. Way too much. .
I don't think we do it all. How about that ? Anyway, let's take a time out in the program when we come. Greg is going to be our sent trivia master. We got some other interesting news as well. Jason York asked a very interesting question on Twitter that I wanna get to as well and is coming up after these words.
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Oh my. Came in second place as the best Canadian whiskey in the country. Pick up some Dun robin spirits today at various lc B locations across the province, or buy directly from their firstname.lastname@example.org. Before we get away from Alex Formenton. Now, do you think he's. Where do you think he will play hockey this year?
Is it khl? Is he just gonna sit on the couch? What is he gonna do? Anything? Well,
I, I, I mean, it depends if he wants to play. If he wants to play, he could certainly play in the k i I, I can see that happening. Um, other options or, I mean, he can play in Sweden, he can play in Finley, play in any league in Europe.
Mm-hmm. , um, I gotta believe he's going to Europe. He. Not play. He cannot afford to take a year off. He's gotta play somewhere.
All right. Nik Zav has been called up again. Darren Dreger, you're saying it's just for depth's sake. Uh, but, uh, that I just, anyway, he's up and, uh, I'm not, I'm not too worried about it at this stage of the game one way or the other.
DJ Smith loves him. Some Nikita Zaitsev . Uh, but Jason York had an interesting question that I wanted to ask you, uh, about, and it's, uh, about the blue. And he threw it out there. Hey, what exactly was the game plan if Jake Sanderson was not ready to play top four minutes this year? I mean, when you combine that with the injury, it was fairly long term.
It was well over a month with, uh, with Artem Zub, and Chabot missed a bunch of time. The Sens only have eight wins right now with Jake Sanderson. If, uh, if Sanderson weren't ready and he is a rookie, there's a, we talked about in the summer, so we sure Jake Sanderson is gonna be ready. We know he is gonna be a stud someday, but defense takes such a long time.
Generally speaking, to develop into top four defensemen, there's at least a chance that Sanderson wouldn't have been. And, uh, wouldn't it have been a god awful mess if he weren't the player that he is right outta the gate?
Yeah, like look at how difficult it's been for Pierre Dorion to acquire another top four defenseman that he's been trying to do this for so long.
Now. Just imagine it like, like Good question. Yorkie. Uh, I don't know that I'd ever even thought about it until, until you, uh, pointed the tweet out to me. Like, what would the solution have been? Could you imagine? And, and especially PI's track record. I'm sure he pictured Eric Brunnstrom being in his top four by now.
Yeah. So that didn't work out so well. You know, uh, the acquisition of Holden was not to be a top four, uh, Travis Hammick, he's playing in the top four, but he's not really a top four. Like where would they be and where would you have been able to find anyone when you can't find anyone? And we all know you can't.
So who would it be? Like, my God, you're absolutely right. Yeah. Kudos
to Yorkie for that. Yeah. He went on to say, you, you can't win in this league consistently with a below average defensive core. Your top two centers are 20 years of age, and the other is a rookie. I don't care how good your wings are.
And uh, and when you put it in those terms, I know we've spent a lot of money. Give it to DJ Smith. And I think again, uh, I feel like we're three weeks at least past the time when you should have made a change there. But when you start to think about it in those terms, there's um, there's no lack of blame to go around.
I don't think Pierre Dorion, despite the summer of Pierre, uh, is, uh, is void of blame.
Well, I don't know that it's, yeah, blame I I, yes and no. It's, it's to blame and not, I mean, he couldn't get what he wanted. He couldn't quite get that last piece that he knew he needed. You can't blame him for, I, I assume he has been trying so you can't blame him for like, like, like you can't sit here and say he hasn't even tried.
Cuz we know he has, um, whether it hasn't happened because he's afraid to bite the bullet and. Somebody or it hasn't happened because he just hasn't found the right guy. I, I don't know what the answer to that is, but we know he has tried everything he can, and the blue line, just as it's constructed now, is not strong enough.
He's given DJ a better team, but it's still not quite there. Right. And I think we all kind of, sort of knew that from the start of the year when you, when you looked at the, the blue line from, from four five. 70. Those bottom four or five guys are just, they're interchangeable parts and they'd all be playing five, six minutes anywhere else.
Yeah. And I'm not saying, you know, that Air Dorian didn't do some good things in the summertime. He did. Right. I'm just, my only, my only thought here is that, um, it, it is not a perfect scenario. There were mistakes made here as well. Like I look at, I'm starting to look at the Conor Brown thing more and more, like he's just exactly the kind of.
Ford that can chip in offensively, but do all the right things out there defensively as well. I start to wonder about Paul versus Matthew Joseph. It's not all on DJ Smith. I think it's time for a new coach, but I think it's not all on DJ Smith.
Yeah. And I look at, look at those deals you just mentioned, the Paul deal and the Brown deal, and I can't help thinking, could you not have gotten a defenseman?
Mm-hmm. , you know, could you not have, um, who's the, the one defenseman that did leave, uh, Tampa. No, I can't think of his, not, not McDonough, the other one. A rta. Right. Okay. Ruda was a pending free agent and they ended up letting him go. Could he not have been a, a, a piece you could have got outta Tampa instead of Joseph.
Was there not a defenseman instead of the draft pick that maybe you could have Ed with Washington, maybe you would've had to throw something else in, but was there not a way to get the defenseman in one of those two deals? I
I don't know. I've seen the last week or so a lot of people suggesting that the Uber focus on Jacob Chiron may have had Pierre Dorion take his eye off of other possibilities, so focused on Chiron that he's missing out on guys like Marino.
What do you think of that theory?
Well, I'm sorry. No, I'm not, I, I, I don't believe that I, I believe they would have a book, uh, on, on all the defensemen that, that they'd be thinking about. They would have a list. Would they have prioritized Chiron higher on that list than others? Yes, but I don't think that means they didn't pursue others.
I, I, they would constantly be looking to upgrade at all times, every day of every week, all year round. In season, off season. If something was there that they could have made happen, I don't think the possibility of maybe getting Jacob Jy later would've prevented them from getting somebody Now.
Right. You know what time it is, Greg?
It is time for Sens trivia. It is brought to you by Kodiak Security Systems, and today I'm the victim. You're the quiz. How many seconds will I get? Uh, I'll give you 20, 20 seconds to answer today. Sens trivia question. If I'm able to do it, Greg will disarm the Kodiak security system and if I fail, the alarm goes off and I lose.
And the listeners, and if you want, Greg can mock me until your throats are sore. Question today is,
The senators joined the NHL rejoined, however you wanna word it, in 92, 93. This is their 40th season In that timeframe, they of course, have been to the Stanley Cup final once lost to Anaheim Moses, 2007, Steve.
Okay. Yep. You got it right. Well done. No. Um, in that timeframe, in that 40 year period, the senators made the Stanley Cup final, as they said, but seven teams who are in the NHL today have not been to a Stanley Cup final in that 40 year period. Do you think you could name
four or five of them?
What do you want? Four or five? Um, let, I've got four off the top of my head. Oh, well then
you've got 20 seconds to name all of them.
Okay, go. Uh, Arizona, correct? Columbus, correct. Seattle, correct. Minnesota, correct. Uh, Flo? No. Florida did early. Um, that's right. Florida
lost to Colorado in 96.
you are missing a big one, my friend and people are really gonna mock
Really? Yeah. Oh, Toronto. Yay. There
you go. Okay. There. So that's, uh,
That's five. Uh, the Jets. Yes, that's six. Uh, I'm not even looking at the standings right now to see all the teams. I'm sure there's one that's, and I think your time is up. Come on. Yeah, I'm sure it's, I'm sure it's . So I think that I'm gonna call that a win.
Good for me. Who did that one? Who did I miss? The
New York Islanders. The
New York Islanders.
Dang, dang. Their last Stanley Cup would final, would've been 1984 when they lost to the Edmonton
Oilers. All right. That's our sense trivia for today. And of course, it's brought to you by Kodiak Security Systems.
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See them today at kodiaksecurity.ca. They're at 28 0 1 Riverside Drive. There's a bear in there. Nicely done. There is a bear in there. I moved away from the mic. Nicely done. Nicely done. I could hardly bear it. See what I did there. Oh, sorry. Thanks Ron. Okay. These senators will take on the New York Rangers in the Big Apple on Friday, December 2nd.
That is their next action. They get, uh, the Sharks again on the weekend and, uh, yeah, see if they can get on another big roll again in two games. I, I, I, I'm trying not to be jaded. I love this team so freaking much, and I just, I let the emotions get the better of me sometimes, so I apologize if I get. Down and negative on the team from time to time.
It's just how can you nod a little bit?
I think they're gonna win both of them.
Nice. Yeah, that's my prediction. All right. Well I think they'll go one in one. Okay. Losing New York and they will beat the sharks. Uh, with that we'll call in today. Don't forget our website to send nation hockey.com. We appreciate you being here today and we shall talk to you next time.
Thanks. Good night. Thanks for being with us on the Jim keay Ford Sens Nation podcast. If you are enjoying the show, please subscribe and review. Share this show with your friends and followers, or become a member on Patreon. Check out our website today. At sens nation hockey.com.